Without comment in any shape or form (lest I deviate from my new found resolve) I report the unhappy fall out from my mistaken attempt yesterday to engage with a religious extremist.
May peace be with the poor fellow.
I’m getting some minor harassment from someone who calls himself Zeno the Stoic. There is no reply to such men because they are driven by the same lies from Satan that got us into this fallen condition in the first place. Do not debate with such fools; let them serve their master, the Devil. However, there are things we can say that will help us understand in our own minds just how wrong such people are.
Zeno, like his namesake, stands on the outside of faith and throws rocks. He cannot possibly understand faith because he mistakenly believes that his reason is the highest faculty of man. He trusts the one thing that by necessity rejects the Creator of all things. Intellect is fallen and hostile to God and the faith He pours into our souls.
There can be no justification for faith on his level. Faith is the faculty that eclipses reason from above it; you either have it or you don’t. Zeno does not, so there is no possible dialog except to warn him that his epistemology is no better than any other failed false religion. Every one who surrenders to mere reason will insist their own logic is the universal default, refusing to understand that the whole range of Greek philosophy was a novel rejection of an epistemology that stood for thousands of years before the Greeks even had writing.
I realize this sounds like a harsh counter-attack, but the whole point is to establish clearly for people like him that his evangelism on behalf of damnation is not welcome. He is driven to attack because he is excluded from us by his own lack of faith. You don’t have to be nice to people who hate everything that matters to you. It won’t matter how he imagines that he is being kind and reasonable; he’s on the way to Hell and wants to drag everyone down with him.
Zeno, don’t come back until you accept the validity of faith as the foundation of an epistemology that is different from yours. We are glad to compare notes, but we will not be lectured and insulted by fools who refuse to understand. Ask questions and stop the condemnation, as if your approach is inherently superior. We won’t take you seriously until you return the favor. And please, stop assuming that we are part of the mainstream Christian religion you disparage. If you can’t take the time to investigate how different we are from them, you will continue to assume all kinds of nonsense about us. Either way, human reason is not the answer to anything that matters.
Addenda: Jesus did not teach inclusion. He taught that the door of repentance was open to everyone. You are welcome to join us as penitents who confess just how wretched they are without Christ. Without owning your personal moral depravity and confessing sin, you exclude yourself from Christ. He told Nicodemas that without spiritual birth, it’s impossible to understand His teachings and miracles.
Well, that’s you told innit?
Yep! Deffo. I can’t help wondering whether some mental abnormality might be the underlying cause of his extremism.
“He told Nicodemas that without spiritual birth, it’s impossible to understand His teachings and miracles.”
So Jesus summed up the reason his mission failed! He knew! He was right. His mistake was in assuming “spiritual birth” can be taught. It can’t. The mystical experience of Reality is caught, not taught.
That’s why the cult of Christianity is reduced to mere human morality and ethics, neither of which are spiritual. That’s why “Christianity” still has to resort to faith, hope and belief in the absence of any experience of the real thing. Faith, hope and belief signify spiritual ignorance about which faith, hope and belief can do nothing.
All good wishes,
I wonder if you have ever read David Deutsch and The Fabric of Reality? Or Frank Tipler and the Omega Point. Particularly the latter. My idea of divinity is that of Tipler and, I have to say, firmly based upon a belief in science. My divinity is a civilisation so far advanced from our own and so beneficent that we savages would call it divine.
Call it a hunch!